Permission for Pleasure
A podcast to educate and equip women with the information and confidence they need to express, experience and enjoy their sexuality. Cindy Scharkey RN, BSN, brings her 35+ years of experience as a healthcare professional to open the doors to healthy conversations about sex. This is a community where you can listen and learn to give yourself permission for pleasure. Visit www.cindyscharkey.com for educational blogs and newsletter.
Permission for Pleasure
Myth-Busting: Part One
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Part 1
Dr. Uchenna Ossai joins me for a thoughtful discussion busting some of the common myths people believe about sexual health. In part one we talk about orgasms, pleasure, foundational sexual beliefs, our mind and sex, and orgasming alone vs partnered. After hearing this episode, one listener said, “This was like a free therapy session - anyone could have some really excellent takeaways from this conversation!”
www.cindyscharkey.com
Dr. Uchenna “UC” Ossai is a sex-positive pelvic health physical therapist and sexuality educator and counselor. She is assistant professor at the UT Dell Medical School and pelvic health program manager at UT Health Austin.
Youseelogic.com
Visit our episode sponsor COCONU and receive 15% off your order with code Pleasure.
ORDER my Book: Permission for Pleasure: Tending Your Sexual Garden
JOIN my Newsletter: Good Education for Good Sex
FOLLOW on Instagram @cindyscharkey
VISIT my website and blog
As a registered nurse and educator for over 30 years, I think you really need to break the silence surrounding sex, especially for women. This podcast is about opening doors to healthy conversations about sex. What I found is that when women have comprehensive education about sex, their self-confidence soars. And when that happens, women can truly express experience and enjoy their sexuality. They give themselves permission for pleasure. Welcome to Permission for Pleasure. I'm Cindy Sharkey, your host, and I am so glad you're here. Thanks for listening and being part of my community here on the podcast. In this episode, we are gonna do some busting of myths. And I have the most fun and fabulous and qualified guest to be with me for this conversation. I love her. Her IG is one of my all-time favorites. She has a series called Truth and Nonsense on her platform. And it just delights me. Today, my guest is Dr. Lucena Osai. Welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Cindy. I'm so excited to gab about all the things pleasure related.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And you go by UC, correct? Yes, I do. Okay. So let me tell the listeners a little bit about you. UC is a pelvic health physical therapist and an Asect certified sexuality counselor. She is the assistant professor at the University of Texas Dell Medical School and also serves as a pelvic health program manager at UT Health Austin. UC is on the faculty for the University of Michigan at School of Social Works Sexual Health Certification Program. Her online platform focuses on improving the sexual intelligence of all adults through innovative content and honest discussion that is free of judgment. I'm so glad to have you with me. Oh, thank you. I was thinking as we talked about busting miss on this episode, you see that you, you know, you see clients in clinic, you're teaching, you have all the things going. And um, I wonder if you might just share why you started that truth and nonsense as part as you know, as part of your platform.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, when I started UC Logic, I wanted to have a larger impact. I love being a healthcare provider. I love being my playing patients one-on-one. But I I kept over the years, I kept hearing the same thing. I wish I knew about this sooner, I wish I knew of you sooner. And people spent so many years and so much time, you know, living in shame, living in pain, and honestly, lack of um accurate and affirming information, no matter what gender you identify with. And so for me, when I started UC Logic, it was really about you know being factual, right? Evidence-based. Everything I say is backed up with you know varying levels of academic rigor. And then, of course, being centered on an intersectional framework. So I, you know, I've been anti-racist before anti-racist was a thing. You know, I've been focused on trans health, non-binary health, people in marginalized identities. But then, you know, but then also kind of wrapping it into fun and kind of just saying, hey, like just because we're grown doesn't mean that we know what we're talking about when it comes to sexy time.
SPEAKER_00A hundred percent.
SPEAKER_01Right. And so Truth or Nonsense came because, you know, I have a segment called Bourbon Tales, but truth or nonsense was just like a really short snippet of just like facts and myths that I hear all the time. And I just wanted to make it funny, but then I also wanted to be like, and that's some BS, or that's a hundred percent true, and just quick and dirty, you know. And uh I I love it. And it actually just came on a whim. I was like, I'm just gonna dancing all the time by myself with people. So let me do my dancing intro that's usually a hot mess, and then I'll introduce my question and answer it the way that I would normally answer it.
SPEAKER_00So well, you mentioned bourbon tales. So tell tell the listeners what what that part of your platform is.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so bourbon tails is is an original, it's an OG. So it's been around since I started UC Logic about four years ago. And I basically sit and I sip a glass of bourbon or bourbon cocktail, and I answer people's questions about sex. So it I take anywhere from about two to four minutes to answer the question. So it's a little bit longer format, but it it goes a little bit deeper. So it's not just a yes or no, it's a yes, and this is how we can solve that issue with you. Or here's here are the steps to move forward in a new direction.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so for the listeners, if boy, you're gonna want to check it out because she she brings the fire and the fun and the facts. So between those three things, you are not gonna want to miss out. You're gonna want to check check out her platform because I I love it. I I love what she's doing, and she's reaching a really wide audience, and that's just so important for people to have the education and be able to receive it.
SPEAKER_01That's important. I mean, every even the way that I answer the questions, I you know, I make sure that everyone can receive the information, whether you're the person asking the question, or maybe you're the subject of the question. It's it's really important that people hear. Right, and there's some topics that are really charged. And you know, someone always asks me, like, do you get negative feedback? And I I I I've been lucky in that I've been given, I don't view it as negative, I view it as, oh, that's a perspective that I missed, or that's something that I didn't consider in my response. Yeah. And thank you for opening my eyes. So I always think of it as learning opportunities because that's how you grow. Because I'm not trying to be, I'm trying to get it right, I'm not trying to be right. And there's a big difference between the two.
SPEAKER_00Love that. I mean, I have about a thousand myths we could bump, bump, debunk, but we only we only have a short amount of time, right? So perhaps you might want to share just off the top, one or maybe two that you hear over and over again just to start off our episode here. Would you want to do that?
SPEAKER_01Sure, sure. So, one myth that I think I hear a lot centers around orgasms. I would say that the myth is that sex isn't good if you don't have the orgasm. An orgasm is given to you by your partner. That's a litmus test for a good sexual partner if they can give you an orgasm. That's categorically untrue and misguided because that's what we've been taught, right? When we watch movies or shows, people say, Oh, this person gave me the best orgasm. You know, it's like, did they give you the best orgasm? Or did you just feel uninhibited, more open with that person, or that person explored parts of your body that you didn't realize were pleasurable, and that you were able to open up and release and experience the pleasure, that that, you know, that type of pleasure that you have when you experience an orgasm. And I think oftentimes people miss that step of, oh, it they kind of attach the orgasm to the person versus to what was going on in that experience and replicating the experience, whether it was the context that you were, that you were living in in that space when you did experience that orgasm, or whether it was how you were touched or how you received that touch. And so it's it's not it's not the sexiest answer because people just want to know okay, you hit this button, you hit this button, you hit this button, you hit this button, and this button, and then boom, angels are weeping, you're screaming, toes are curling, and it's happy, happy orgasm time. I wish I could tell you that, but it doesn't always work that way.
SPEAKER_00And I think one thing that I've come to really understand and try to help women reframe is that we're responsible for our pleasure. No one is responsible for your pleasure, in so many words. I have women who really don't agree with me on this. So, and if you don't, that's okay. I agree with you. I just I feel like we've been kind of fed a bill of goods with somebody else's responsible to bring me pleasure or to understand my pleasure, or again, to be responsible for giving me an orgasm. And I think if we reframed our ideas around what you're talking about and being a little more in charge of our own pleasure, that just changes the game.
SPEAKER_01100%. I had a conversation with someone a couple of months ago where we were talking about this, about the shame around people who are having who have pelvic pain or difficulty achieving orgasms, and how people try and they would say, What is the advice you give someone to negotiate a sexual experience? And it's like, well, I'm curious about what brings you pleasure. That's how everyone should approach it. I don't care what gender you have, what genitals you're you're you're holding, right? You that should always be your first inquiry. Like there is such a thing as a good lover, and a good lover is going to start with that. A good lover is going to be interested in hearing about your pleasure experience, whether or not you know what that looks like. And so that's another thing, another myth is that you're supposed to know exactly how you like to be touched immediately. That is categorically untrue because as we know, we go through different, particularly women and vagina owners, you know, if you go through the experience of, you know, carrying a child and birthing a child or being a new parent, because you don't have to birth a child to be to be a parent and to experience what your body goes through. And so what felt good to you prior to that experience is going to feel is not necessarily gonna feel good to you after that experience, right?
SPEAKER_00And that's a mantra on this podcast, frankly, of just revisiting these conversations within yourself, with your own sexual relationship and with a partner in the sense of what worked for me at one point may not work for me later or now or in the future. It's just an ongoing conversation that that we want to be having.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And I think people hang their hat on, oh, I can I can make my partner do this, or I can make my partner have this sexual reaction. And when they don't have that sexual reaction, it becomes a personal thing. It's like, oh, there's something wrong with me. And we just need to remove that ego. Now you're human, right? You're human. So you you're gonna feel some type of way when this thing you used to do that used to make your partner crazy in the positive way doesn't happen anymore. And you're like, oh, what am I doing wrong? I sucks, dang. And that's okay to like be up in your feelings about that. That's fine. But then then it's think about this as choose your a new adventure. It's like, ooh, okay, so now we get to explore and figure out what else, you know, tickles your taint, makes you happy, you know, blows your skirt up, and fantastic.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01And it's but I but you know, again, I'm I've done this work a long time. I've done a in order for me to be a sex counselor, I've had to do a lot of self-work, look at my biases, my upbringing. You know, I grew up with like first generation American and a Catholic household, um, you know, African parents. So there's a very real view that even though I was quote, woke and dope about things, until I really examined the foundational beliefs that I had and understood how they played out, even when I was a young physical therapist and how they played out with my patients, I was shocked. And I was like, wow, that's a really strong bias that I didn't even realize came out, even in the way I evaluated my patient. And I'm just talking about sexuality. I'm not talking about all the other things that we attach bias to. And that was an intentional thing. And I can only imagine if everyone went through the process that I went through to kind of pull that out and understand that and see how it shows up in real time, how it would change people's sex lives, how this the shame and the stress and all of those things would just kind of not necessarily be gone, but they would have less of a hold.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes. And I think that uh not just women, but I I primarily meet with women. And so I just it's just like a tangled web of things we've heard, seen, been brought up with, taught. There was silence around all of it. And like you're saying, it's just a really informative and growth practice to investigate those things. And I think you're right. I think that if we did, it would lead to a lot more pleasure. And I think back on the orgasm train, I really have come to believe and understand that orgasm is something you allow to happen rather than make happen. And so back to that idea of a partner making it happen, it just doesn't compute, you know, with what I know as a nurse and what I know from working with women all these years.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Because then when let's take that reframe, right? Let's take that into a real life scenario. Let's say you're person A, and person A gets a vibrate. They're like, I've never had an orgasm. I'm just gonna get this vibrant, it's gonna give me an orgasm. And they they are like getting in circusole positions, they're just rubbing all over their genitals, and they're like, Why isn't it happening? What's going on? And they're getting so frustrated. And it's almost like you're chasing a dog, right? When the faster you chase that dog, it's just gonna run away from you. And then you have person B that says, Oh, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna order this vibrator because it looks interesting. I and it seems like I have some flexibility in how I explore. And they they they use it and they just say, I'm just gonna explore my body. And and over time, you know, orgasms start to happen because they're not chasing the orgasm, they're chasing the experience and learning their body and using that that sex toy, that sex tool. Like you have so much more freedom when you can approach sex from that framework and practice that because it's a skill. In this society, it's a skill to allow you know orgasms to happen, to kind of let them be part of the experience versus the end goal.
SPEAKER_00Yes, exactly. I I love the idea too of reminding people that pleasure is the the goal. The goal is to enjoy yourself and experience pleasure. And sometimes, like you said, if we take that orgasm goal off the table and have it not be what we're striving towards, it's lovely when it happens. Yes. I'm not I'm not poo-pooing the orgasms, right? But I think if we don't push so hard towards that being the end goal, all the ways we allow ourselves to have sensations and experience pleasure and engage our mind is gonna in the end probably allow for a lot more orgasms.
SPEAKER_01Can we talk a little bit about pleasure for a second too? Because I I think we should redefine that or allow it to have a to kind of be on a spectrum. For some people, pleasure is just reaching a neutral depending on where you are in life. You might be maximally stressed, you might be sleep deprived, you might be going through something, you might be going through some type of transition, whether that's retirement, baby, school, whatever, wherever you are in the lifespan. Um, sometimes having that Meg Ryan response from when Harry met Sally isn't the way isn't shouldn't be the litmus test. It might just be, you know what, let me just find a neutral space where I just, you know, where touch doesn't feel intrusive, where touch might be soothing. And that might be somewhere in the middle in terms of pleasure, right? Like I'm just looking for something that's soothing, that makes me feel safe, that makes me feel comfortable, that makes me feel affirmed. You know, pleasure can look many ways. And uh I think having that flexibility and living on the spectrum in terms of pleasure can change the game.
SPEAKER_00I love that. I I love that definition and explanation as we go through changes and seasons in our life, and and also for those who have chronic pain and or acute pain or you know, all of those things. Um, but truly that idea that you even said of just being touched out and just wanting to be in a neutral place of feeling connected and just soothed, that could be in any stage of life, like you said.
SPEAKER_01For me, you know, when I listen to my patients talk about in clients, because I do see people, private clients for sex counseling, you know, there's so much pain that can be felt in their expectations. And so we have to almost start with where did those expectations come from? Because there's a sense of loss and grief that actually sometimes really needs to be given some time. You know, you need to be given a minute to say, okay, I'm gonna grieve this. I'm gonna grieve the loss of that dream. Because that dream was created not in my reality, not in a reality that is is works for my life. And so even though we say that, we get that intellectually, emotionally, and that can be hard to let that go. That also too has to be a part of that process. You know, I had this patient say something to me the other day that it was was was interesting to hear where they said, you know, I just wish I was one of those people where it was just easy. They just their partner climbed on top of them, orgasm within a few minutes. I said, in what planet does that actually happen? Seriously, when does the orgasm happen within a minute?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it doesn't. And I think a lot of these myths that that people believe are actually from what they see or hear or dream or imagine or think they heard or saw. There's just so much misinformation out there. And um and and you and I know that sex is a it's a skill that you learn. Everybody is learning. Uh that's a normal way to be. And nothing's wrong with you if you are listening and thinking, I don't know, it's just so hard, or it's I have to really work at it, or I have to do this or do that. Well, that that's that's just normal. That's how it is for most people.
SPEAKER_01And let's be honest, you know, with some people you might have more of a sensual energy, with other with some people you might have more ease. Some people it might be just truly like raw energy. That, like, I'm not gonna poop on that. No, I feel you, I get that, right? And depending on the place in life that you are, it's easy. If you're in your late 30s or early 40s or 50s and you're comparing yourself to how you reacted to sex when you were 19, and I said, What stress were you under at 19? What mortgage did you have at 19? What work stress did you have at 19? You know, I mean, man, when I was 19, my biggest concern was like, you know, oh gosh, you know, where can I get some beer tonight?
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01You know, I was a college student. Yeah, it wasn't too, it wasn't, I wasn't stressing too much. You know, and I and to be fair, that's not the case for all 19-year-olds. I'm just but I'm saying that, you know, over the years, wife has has given you certain things that have now added to the process.
SPEAKER_00And I, you know, what goes along with that, you see, is that idea of that my body should respond and my mind doesn't have to be involved. And because you're bringing up as we get older, I'm thinking, you know, as our as we get older and our this is especially true for women my age. So here we are. You know, as we get older, our hormones take a dive, right? And so we have to remember though that our minds are still active and available. And even if young people could understand how the engagement of your mind and being present in your body is such a big factor in uh enjoyable sex. It's huge. So that myth that your mind isn't part of it, that your body just supposed to respond is baloney.
SPEAKER_01Total malarky.
SPEAKER_00We probably need about 500 podcasts just on engaging our mind and feeling the sensations of our our body, and our minds are so busy, I think we're so distracted. And then so often we think, well, something's wrong because I just can't feel everything. And and if you're redecorating the bedroom or worrying about your work presentation next day, or the kids gonna maybe come in any second, all of those things on your mind definitely affect how your body responds.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, and I think that especially after the year that we've all had, whatever level of conscious consciousness you had about COVID, George Floyd, Bianna Taylor, everything in between. Um, I think that the elections so so much. And I think what we're You know, some people may not have felt it last year, but they're feeling it now. You know, you're almost coming down from that toes-on mentality. You know, when you're toes on for a year and you're kind of worrying that a bear is gonna come around the corner, and then you're like, okay, the bear isn't there, but then you you realize, oh wow, I've been toes on for a year. It's gonna take a minute for your body and your mind to to kind of not be out of in that fight or flight response all the time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's great. And it is true that everyone experienced it in different ways, and I feel like we need to offer ourselves a lot of grace and each other.
SPEAKER_01I have this, you know, grand vision of how I would love sexual health to be, you know, and everyone, and for it to really just be free of shame. But that's wrapped into so many other things, and so starting starting with ourselves, giving, like you said, giving yourself permission, right? Permission for pleasure is is actually deeper work than we realize.
SPEAKER_00There's a lot of truth to that, yes.
SPEAKER_01I I tell some of my clients that you have your sexuality, your partner has their own sexuality, and then you have a sexuality together as a couple. And that's you know, that's also tricky.
SPEAKER_00Yes, because I'm thinking of another myth as you bring that up of uh and I I heard you address this one on truth or nonsense of people being able to orgasm alone but not with a partner or struggle to orgasm with a partner. So it's always back to this orgasm question because so that's everybody wants to know about the orgasm, right? So even though we've reframed it, and we're still gonna address that that that that doesn't mean you're not into your partner, and that doesn't mean something's broken with you. None of those things are true, as you would say. That's nonsense.
SPEAKER_01I think that if you're able to orgasm with yourself, just think about it for a second. Let's let's just let's just you know kind of step out of step out of this for a moment and say, okay. What's the difference between masturbating solo and essentially masturbating part with a partner? Well, I'm not worried about my, I'm not thinking about my body. I'm not trying to perform for anybody. I'm able to really just think about myself. I'm able to, I don't have to worry about anyone's feelings, no one's ego. I can jump around at my own ease. It's almost like traveling solo versus traveling with your partner and children. It's like it's not that you can't, you have a great time both ways, but it's just gonna be a little easier. That's a good way to be by yourself, right? Depending on the situation. And so there are lots of factors at place. Sometimes partners will say, Oh, well, there's something wrong with you, or there's something wrong with them. And it's not really like that. And if people desire to have an orgasm with their partner, then replicate the environment that you have when you're more orgasming by yourself. Don't make it about them. Don't make it about them because it's not about them.
SPEAKER_00Ding, ding, ding.
SPEAKER_01Just have that pleasurable experience. Move around your body, move around your sensations, drink it all in, and just know that this there's a person that happens to be there. Now, there's some skills that a per your partner needs to have. Like they need to stop asking you, you know, are you there yet? Are you there yet? Are you there yet? Well, then no, and then I'll never get there if you keep asking me.
SPEAKER_00Turn off, turn off, turn off. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right. You know, if if that, if you know, there's some things that have to be negotiated and discussed um in that process. So, you know, there's definitely those basic skills that can be kind of saying, hey, babe, like maybe let's just let me roll with it and I'll let you know. I'll guide you. Or I may not guide you. You might just have to watch and learn. Be fluid with that experience to say, okay, this time I just I don't want to talk, I don't want to teach you right now, but you can watch. And then from there, there afterwards, you can debrief together and vice versa. So it can be a mutually beneficial experience, you know. Like have fun with it. There's so many opportunities when you're thinking about your sex life and how that looks. It doesn't necessarily need to always look like a romantic comedy.
SPEAKER_00Well, it most often won't look like a romantic comedy. You all, this conversation continues in part two, and you do not want to miss it. So click over there at the end of this show or download it for later. Thank you so much for listening and sharing the podcast. Our community is growing every week. I am so grateful. Thank you for sharing and spreading the love. And if you haven't had a chance to rate and review the show, please stop and do that. It just takes a moment or two and it really does help others to find the podcast. A big thank you to our sponsor for this episode, Kokonou. You all know I'm a big fan of lube, and Kokono makes naturally safe organic products. They have both an oil-based and water-based lube, as well as a hemp-infused body oil. They're offering my listeners 15% off, and you can find the link in the show notes. Before I sign off and meet you over in part two, I want to leave you with this quote from Iris Murdoch. One of the secrets of a happy life is continuous small treats. I really like that. And I want to encourage you to look for small treats as part of your journey in giving yourself permission for pleasure.
