Permission for Pleasure
A podcast to educate and equip women with the information and confidence they need to express, experience and enjoy their sexuality. Cindy Scharkey RN, BSN, brings her 35+ years of experience as a healthcare professional to open the doors to healthy conversations about sex. This is a community where you can listen and learn to give yourself permission for pleasure. Visit www.cindyscharkey.com for educational blogs and newsletter.
Permission for Pleasure
Heated Rivalry’s Intimacy Coordinator Chala Hunter
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Take a peek into the role of Intimacy Coordinator for Heated Rivalry, the TV show everyone’s talking about. Chala Hunter shares what an intimacy coordinator’s job is, and how she worked to create comfort and safety on set for the simulated sex scenes, nudity and all things intimacy. We discuss the cast and crew vibe while filming the show, and the intentionality around modeling safe, consensual and pleasurable sex. Learn why Director Jacob Tierney calls Chala, “The hero of this show!”
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I do think that the calm, practical, empathetic energy and like style of communication that I bring to this role, certainly my intention with that is to kind of like take the curse off the conversation, you know, and to allow people to feel able to speak their truth, their true consent levels, their true boundaries.
SPEAKER_00Hello everyone, and welcome to Permission for Pleasure. I'm Cindy Sharkey, your host. Delighted you join me for this conversation with Chayla Hunter. Chayla is the intimacy coordinator for the TV series so many people are talking about heated rivalry. Whether you're a fan of the show or not, this conversation with Shayla is really thoughtful and insightful. I have long wanted to talk to an intimacy coordinator on the show. I was so glad she said yes. I saw her work and thought this is who we want to talk to about this. Her framework, heated rivalry based on author Rachel Reid's book, centers around two ice hockey stars, big rivals that fall into a secret and passionate developing relationship. It's steamy, explicit, and people who know my work immediately said, please watch this so we can discuss. So we're going to discuss it a little bit on the show together. Now you all know I'm the loop fairy and that I love Uberloop and they're the perfect sponsor this episode because Uberloop is a multi-use product. The show we're talking about today is hockey players, a sport where the athletes wear a lot of equipment that rubs, and Uberloop is a great anti-chafe. Did you know that? You should try it. And of course, we already know it's an excellent sexual lubricant. So it literally works in the bedroom and the locker room. Find my discount code and link in the show notes to try Uberloop for yourself. Don't forget to follow the podcast on your favorite listening platform. And when you're in the show notes, sign up for my newsletter. Good education for good sex. That link is always there. And when you sign up, I will send you a download of me reading to you the first chapter of my book, Permission for Pleasure. Attending your sexual garden. Now let's jump into my conversation with Chayla Hunter. Thank you so much for having me. I'm just delighted to have you. And I was telling you before we press record, you know, how fun it was to watch the show, and how I have so many questions. And my community is so excited and has so many questions. And you're the perfect person to have on this kind of podcast because I think your job is really interesting and well, I think it's vital. I would agree. And so why don't you well, you've worn a lot of hats, right? You've been an actor, you've produced, you write, and intimacy coordinator is another role. Why don't you share just a little bit about yourself and your work in the world in your words? Sure, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I came to intimacy coordinating like through acting. I was an actor for a long time and I'm still pursuing it when I have time, which is not right now, but I'm still invested in it. Um but yeah, that's really what led me towards intimacy coordinating. I did a lot of intimacy and nudity in my performance history in my professional life, which included, you know, simulated sex and hyperexposure and yeah, a whole gamut of things. And then I think somewhere around when the rule was starting to kind of gain popularity and appeal, I got asked by a friend to support the production in that way as an intimacy coordinator, yeah, in her web series. And I did that and was glad to help, but immediately was kind of like, oh, you could cause a lot of unintentional harm in this role if you weren't super educated. Not that I didn't do a bunch of research and come prepared, but then yeah, I went and pursued avenues for training, and I'm still doing all kinds of training, including like supplementary training, like, you know, like gender inclusivity awareness and trauma-informed learning and harm reduction of all types, mental health first aid, actual like you know, physical first aid, like all kinds of like anti-racism education in a bunch of different formats. And so yeah, the the journey is ongoing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Great way to approach it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, totally. Yeah, like always learning, you know, always open to receive like constructive feedback or critical feedback, or yeah, just constantly trying to adapt and learn from every experience and all the other like training that I'm doing and self-educating.
SPEAKER_00Sure. You know what I've I've heard, I think I probably read in an article that someone interviewed you, and you said any material in the script that involves nudity, you mentioned simulated sex, really, and then you mentioned hyperexposure and intimacy. And I think for those who have no idea what an intimacy coordinator is, maybe you could just give us a little framework for that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, sure. So like, you know, what can fall under the, let's say, umbrella or rainbow of intimacy can be quite vast. And so when I'm breaking down a script or when I'm communicating with production, you know, I might flag certainly simulated sex, or if there's any nudity mentioned in a script, but I you would also flag other forms of intimacy, like types of touching or contact, or a kiss, or or even like, yeah, of course, someone showering, or uh, you know, a bunch of people in bathing suits, or two people, one is shirtless, the other one is, I don't know, in like a sports bra, potentially, depending on who we're, you know, imagining who are like maybe wrestling, you know, and that would be a stunt coordinator's job, but because of like what you might call hyperexposure, like being in a bathing suit or being not totally clothed, like it just can be the umbrella can hold a lot, you know. So I try to flag every little thing that I think might merit at least either my input or my presence. And then yeah, that initiates a conversation with production.
SPEAKER_00Okay, wow. So this is a bigger umbrella than I understood. Yeah. How does the flow of that go? Do you say things like, do you consent to that, or are you comfortable with that, or do you help choreograph the scenes themselves?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, all of the above.
SPEAKER_00So all of that.
SPEAKER_01I speak to, so I obviously get the script, get the material, have an initial meeting with production. This is like kind of generally, obviously, with you know, slight differences every time, how it goes. And then I have a conversation with the director and scene by scene try to get as specific a sense of their vision as possible. Because I find specificity to be the key or set one of the keys in this uh position. Um, and really maybe an all art, in my opinion. But anyway, and then I bring uh the content of the scene to the actors, to the performers who'll be implicated in the scripted action, and yeah, just have like a really open conversation about their consent levels and boundaries related to that scripted action.
SPEAKER_00And you know, I've heard actors interviewed about heated rivalry saying, I mean, they're they're describing you as having a huge role in this series and this show, and that there were lots and lots of conversations behind the scenes and lots of back and forth. And the director, Jacob Tierney, said flat out, you were, and I quote, the hero of this show. So it seems to me what you're saying, and I resonate with this, is you are comfortable with body, sex, and pleasure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I think I have a certainly like a level of comfort with all of it, having had the experience doing intimacy and nudity as a performer, but also my work as an actor when I worked in the theater was very embodied. Like I was in highly physical shows, you know, whether it involved dance or like experimental movement, or like I did a lot of really embodied physical theater. And the training that I had as an actor, I would say, was also very embodied and like based in like physicality and how the imagination comes alive through the body as an actor, you know. And so I guess because of that, yeah, I I developed like a level of comfort with all of these things. And I also just find like even if I am uncomfortable, which I think is okay, you know, there are some things that I have to ask that m sometimes maybe make me a little uncomfortable, but I I find like clarity and directness, like a warm, grounded clarity and directness to be such a productive way to speak about anything. And it's like something I value in my whole life as a way of like being and speaking and kind of being in the world. And so I guess because I value that, I'm able to like bring it to this role as well. And it certainly feels essential in this role, but I think it's also something just as a person that I value as like a style of communication.
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, that delights me to hear that because I mean people are so uncomfortable around sex, talking about sex, bodies, pleasure. I mean, that's my platform, as you know. And I I love the idea of having someone like you able to talk frankly and directly and empathetically, you know, in these kinds of situations with people. And that just spreads, that spreads around, you know, in a good way.
SPEAKER_01I think you're right about that. Such a nice articulation of it. I do think that the kind of like calm, practical, like empathetic energy and like style of communication that I bring to this role, certainly my intention with that is to kind of like take the curse off the conversation, you know, and to allow people to feel able to speak their truth, their true consent levels, their true boundaries, their true maybe insecurities or questions, or what they're excited about, or what they find funny, you know, just to like really open the gates on the communication. And I do that by leading that way, leading by example, so that they feel really free to be as transparent and honest as possible. Because I find when we can move forward in clarity, whether that's in like a personal relationship with someone, or in this context, in production, when we're talking about intimacy or simulated sex or nudity, uh, then things just go better because everyone's on the same page and there's no like there's nothing doubtful or being withheld or, you know, or or there mostly isn't. And if there is, usually I'm able to catch it because my sensing ability. Yeah, like big time. You know, I'm doing this gesture with my arms right now that the listeners can't see, but I'm literally doing like almost like a I'm ready to play a sport, but a really gentle, empathetic one. Like my arms are out and I got I've got my knees bent, you know. Like Yep, you're prepped and ready. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I wonder, I'm thinking about some just, you know, nuts and bolts of our bodies as you're talking about embodied work, and especially in scenes like heated rivalry, where there is so much happening sexually, intimately stimulated, of course, but our bodies like respond. I'm just curious how you handle, do you like prep people ahead and say, hey, like your bodies, you know, they may get aroused. This is what we're gonna do if that happens. Or if you find, you know, this kind of pressure and whole, you know, hugging, you have to go to the bathroom. So you can you just say, I gotta go. Or I I'm just curious as a nurse, you know, these kinds of things that I know are normal. How do you handle that in a filming situation?
SPEAKER_01Honestly, kind of in a similar way to what I described with everything else. I totally bring those things up. I like to like name anything, especially anything that might feel especially like shameful or scary or you know, problematic for an actor. I just lay it all out and I'm like, you know, this might happen, this might happen. And, you know, part of my practice is to also give the actors like an out. And I think all intimacy coordinators have a different approach to that. But I always just say, you know, after I've laid out all these possible scenarios and like things that can happen with your body or that might, or who knows, you know, like you might think that you're comfortable doing something and then get there on the day and realize it doesn't work for you, or that there's an element of it that needs to be adjusted for it to work for you for whatever reason, physically, emotionally, doesn't matter. I always say that if you need to call a pause for any reason, and then I generally like kind of rattle off a list of a bunch of reasons, you know.
SPEAKER_00I make some break out in goosebumps, then Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01Like I make some of them funny. I just like you know, I rattle off a list, but I make some of them very serious too. And I always come back to the end being like, you know, truly though, if any of these things or anything occurs that means that you need to take a pause, you just stop the scene and you say, I need to call a pause or I need a break. And then I always tell them that they can either come straight to me and tell me why, and I'll I'll either come with them or I'll support the situation however they need me to, or you can tell the AD or you know, there's other options. Or I also say you can just walk off. Like if you need a break and there's something going on, we don't necessarily need to know what it's about. You're the actor, the scene can't continue without you. We'll figure it out. Like, you know, it's just a set, we'll sort it out. If you need to go away because you need a break, just go and we'll like we'll take it from there. So I try to make that really as available as possible to them. And certainly, you know, yeah, our bodies are bodies, they're made up of nerve endings and like cells and skin, and you know, it's like all kinds of stuff happens.
SPEAKER_00As you're talking about that, I'm a little curious how often an actor takes you up on that and actually pauses. Or, I mean, do they feel empowered to do that when you've given them that kind of a permission?
SPEAKER_01I haven't had anything happen where someone had like a situation that was, I guess, so urgent that they had to like stop the take. But I've certainly had people in the middle of scenes be like, I just need a minute, you know, for whatever reason. Sure. And then that's what we do. They take a minute and we keep going, or we take 10 minutes if we need to, you know, whatever it needs. Sure. Whatever the situation calls for.
SPEAKER_00Okay, I just I just saw Hudson on another show trying to describe. I'm gonna pivot a little bit because I'm okay. You know where I'm going, don't you? I do, yeah, yeah, I do.
SPEAKER_01I watched some of those clips.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so please explain what an intimacy garment is from an intimacy coordinator's perspective.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there's a wide ride of intimacy garments. So the ones Hudson is uh describing or referring to, it's a pouch made of fabric with like some stretch in it that has like a drawstring attachment at the top. So anyone with external genitalia, you know, places that part of their body in the pouch. And then we have like a pad that can be inserted into the pouch that generally is, but especially for simulated sex scenes, is that just acts as an extra barrier between that actor and whatever they might be coming into close contact with or like in proximity to, you know, and then it's secured at the top of the drawstring, and then you tuck the drawstring in the little strings so that you can't see the strings, and that's it. But there's also a wide variety. There's like he boos and shiboos, there's things that are strapless thongs for people with external and internal genitalia, or not internal, but you know, external genitalia. And otherwise, yeah, there's really a wide variety, honestly. There's a whole market out there. There are a couple amazing websites.
SPEAKER_00Um I actually didn't know that, but that's fascinating. But I just crack up watching him describe. I know, yeah. I couldn't, I couldn't help. I mean, Connor and Hudson are uh it's so entertaining, and I can't imagine they're just the same on set. I mean, in a way. I mean, they bring their own personalities to their acting, of course.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think as any performer does, you're bringing a certain amount of yourself to that role. They're certainly, I will say, in terms of them as performers and people, just like how they both have so much integrity, they're both so kind, so respectful, so invested in their craft, and in this case, in this story. And both of them actually all are also such good communicators, like in terms of my you know, relationship with them. And I just found them to be both such excellent communicators as well. They're standout guys, what can I say? I'm thrilled for them.
SPEAKER_00That's so fun to hear. And I'm thinking there is so much conversation around their chemistry. I mean, that's all you hear you know in the media and the and them talking about having chemistry. And so many people in my community that sent in questions and things like that and and responses to knowing we were gonna chat were like, we haven't seen this kind of chemistry in, I don't know. Let me try to find a show, you know. And I think how did you what element does that bring, you know, for you working with them, the challenges and the benefit to that?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I found there to be no challenges, genuinely. Like I think, you know, often it people may or may not know this, but in TV, when you're trying to cast especially big leading roles like that, you always have things called chemistry reads, where you have an actor read with another actor that you're thinking about casting to play alongside or opposite them, like in a pair, to see what their chemistry is like, because obviously it makes a difference, you know. It does in like scripted narratives and it also does in life. So they had a chemistry read, you know, and I think like I feel like their chemistry that people are talking about is a testament to Jacob and the rest of that team that did the casting, because they're the ones who you know paired them up and trusted their instincts around that based on their auditions and the chemistry read and them as people. In terms of how it affected, you know, my conversations with them and the aspect of intimacy coordinating, I would just say it's like a gift, because as they say, they're like best buds. And so it that meant that they were really, like they use this word in the show, very compatible. And it meant that their artistic relationship and all of our collaboration, yeah, was I guess that much more easeful and joyful and like perhaps creates more possibilities, you know?
SPEAKER_00Ooh, I like that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because the conversation is so fruitful, I guess, or like the collaboration is so fruitful that it creates more possibilities, uh, potentially. But yeah, I I found there to be no challenges. It was just a it was a boon, it was a delight that they adore each other and that we all also got along, you know? And that myself and Jacob also have an incredible relationship. So it was like sounded like it. Yeah, like kind of like a meeting of and you know, everyone else, all the other crew on set were also just I don't know how much people have talked about this, but that team was like the dream. It was like we all had such a great time. I mean, I'm sure people had hard moments. I'm not trying to speak for everyone, but it's like sure. It's work. Yeah, for me generally, it's like the most positive, joyful, efficient, and even like artistically exciting set that I had maybe ever been on. So wow. Yeah, kind of like magic, you know, the dream.
SPEAKER_00Well, you know, I'm thinking that translated to the show and then has now translated to the explosion over everyone's joy over watching this show. Yeah. So I think it just that kind of thing isn't for naught. I mean, that that just trickles and spreads. I have my fingers going everywhere. It's like the stars are all aligned, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, totally. I mean, I do think positive energy does create more positive energy. Like that is, I do believe in that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I'm curious what you think about this just uh explosion of all genders, all sexualities enjoying, loving, and talking about this show. Tell me what you're thinking when you see just the widespread appeal and delight over this show. What do you think? I'm curious.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I honestly primarily just feel so happy for Jacob and Brendan because I have been, you know, Jacob's a good friend of mine, and I think he's so smart and so kind. and so talented and so I'm just overjoyed to see this project of his that he poured his like he poured so much energy into you know being so and that means so much to him that like the narrative and the the mess like not the messaging but like the themes and ideas and like at play within the narrative me I know mean a lot to him to see it being so widely and joyfully received just like makes my heart glow for him and Brendan who's an incredible person and producer and also for all of the performers involved you know like I just yeah I just honestly feel like a lot of gratitude and joy and I also feel happy that people are getting so much pleasure out of it you know like I think that I don't know perhaps pleasure can be hard to come by at times and like yeah everybody's daily grind you know and and there's a lot of very troubling things happening in the world right now very troubling and so very problematic extremely troubling and problematic so I feel glad to know that people are feeling joy and pleasure and excitement or that they're feeling seen or that it is causing them to feel empathy or to maybe think about things in a slightly different way or even just that they're laughing you know it's like the show is also very funny. Like so yeah it's all really just so positive.
SPEAKER_00It's interesting that people are so curious why so many like straight women are talking about a you know queer hockey show, right?
SPEAKER_01But from my perspective, you know, as a sex educator and I'm in sexual health I'm just thinking what I hear them saying and what they're messaging me is that yearning that they see in the show, the balance of power there's power dynamics maybe but I mean there's there's a balance there that we often don't see I think well I think for women there's for women there's not a gendered power dynamic going on which is you know when we're seeing like let's say cis heteronormative intimacy portrayed in the media there is the element of the patriarchy involved all the time and women experience that or female identifying people experience that in their lives constantly. And so I've heard some people speak about too that it's like it's also a relief or it's like more accessible perhaps to watch it for that reason because there's no threat going on or there's no you know potential reprisal or there's no I mean so much of like film and TV ro has and still does romanticize a kind of like unhealthy power dynamic correct in how the intimacy or romance is being portrayed on screen that we normalize uh violence, we normalize rape culture, we normalize racism as well and the interplay between all of those things we normalize certainly homophobia, you know, and and also do a lot of like romanticizing of like trauma narratives. So it's like I think that this story isn't doing any of that I don't think certainly it was the goal to not do that.
SPEAKER_00And so I feel like that's appealing to a lot of people including women totally yes I'm thinking too of when I was watching the episode three with Kip and Scott the characters' names I was just so tickled to see the play aspect and the laughing and the people are so they they're so misguided in the in the idea that sex has to be so serious you know and that there is it's really our playground you know and I really appreciated in those scenes especially I noticed I remember telling my daughters look how they're laughing oh I love this oh I hope they fall off the bed oh I hope you know like it's this kind of thing because it's so normal and fun and and sex is fun. And I think that that piece alone in that one uh episode just made me joyful in in in people seeing that kind of fun and play. Yeah that's so nice to hear that's such a good point. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You just don't see that that often no that's true yeah and like allowing it to be really human and yeah as you say filled with laughter or even like you know there being like awkwardness or or vulnerability at play as well. Yeah I think it's nice to yeah it's just nice to show stories that allow us to accept like the full range of humanity.
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean I'll be honest though when the scene came where I the where I was waiting to see what Shane was going to pull out of his bedside table. They finally were gonna have pen they were going to have penetrative sex. They had made a kind of a plan that's how I I understood it there was consent. I the amount of consent in this show and of checking in made me so happy as a sexual health advocate right I was just cheering I was cheering I'm I'm sure when my family's used to me but it's like I'm like yes yes more of that oh there's more I'm so happy yes that's good because we need that model chain we we need that shown w over and over and over again.
SPEAKER_01Agreed yes yeah it was definitely spoken about yeah it's very intentional yeah yeah it is so important.
SPEAKER_00Let me ask you then now I'm starting to get all ramped up right um he reached over the bedside table and in my head okay I'm the lube fairy so that's my nickname I'm going oh my gosh I hope he pulls out a bottle of Uber lube. This is wait what is he going to pull out of there because Uber lube's my favorite and I'm thinking he's hockey and it works as an anti-chafe and it works as a great sexual lubricant and is he oh and it was a it was just a slew of condoms. Which we want that too right we want that to come out of the bedside table. But I was just laughing because I almost wish there was both because I know how important it is for good lube for penetration. And so I'm curious I'm curious how you or was that scripted? Was that in the book? Yeah how how was that choice made?
SPEAKER_01That was scripted I don't think it was in I can't recall actually if it was in the book. That's a good question but it was certainly in the script and you know Jacob has spoken about this a bit as well like I hear you on the realism of lube and potentially a bunch of other technical elements uh surrounding sex actual sex but you know this is fiction and so that's you know there's some things that we don't include because it's fiction and there are like creative choices, artistic choices being made but uh I appreciate your excitement well I'm actually inserting that also just as an education piece because I am always trying to to just say hey let's talk about the realities of what's needed.
SPEAKER_00But I did appreciate that condoms were shown and that that was we it was very obvious that Ilya the character Iliad had sex often and with many people and so I I appreciated what came out of the bedside table.
SPEAKER_01I was just hoping for both for both we'll we'll see we'll see what we can do on season two, okay? No problem.
SPEAKER_00Okay let me know about that. You know I had quite a few questions about the queer storyline and the sex scenes I was a little bit surprised maybe because I'm in sexual health but people were asking if there were differences in the approach for same-sex scenes or considerations around that. People are asking I wonder if you might speak to that.
SPEAKER_01Like differences in the approach to the intimacy coordination? Uh-huh I mean the only I guess what I would say is that I can't remember if I mentioned this earlier but like my approach is as I said actor centric but also like so empathetic and subjective and considering context and context is like an onion that has like never ending layers you know so there's the context within the story in terms of who those people are what situation they're in how old they are what room are they in what country are they in what society are we in etc on and on and on how do they identify you know what's their race what's their culture what's their gender what's their sexuality those are a bunch of pieces and then also there's the context that we're filming inside of so like who are the actors you know subjectively like what's their lived experience what's their cultural context where are we filming what are the power dynamics like just again onioning out in this major way considering context so I would say that I approached it differently in that I'm considering who these characters are in this story with immense specificity and allowing that to guide basically allowing the writing of the script to guide the way that we're approaching I guess like choreographing those scenes but it's like it's almost like every project I do that is true. You know I'm always being as like subjective and empathic and like coming at it almost like from the inside out as possible to really yeah make sure that it's like specific to those characters and then of course like from my professional standpoint that I'm working specifically with that actor whoever they are like who is that person? What do they need? What's their lived experience? What are their consent levels and boundaries? What's gonna work for them on set? What choreography works for their personhood body inside of whatever the story is and who the actor they're working with is and who the director like do you know what I mean? Like it's like sure constantly specific actually and so I would just say people are right it it is different because that's the story that we're working with.
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm. Yeah thanks for sharing that yeah I'm thinking about all the crazy you know you you talking about specificity and then all the crazy timeline jumps in this show specifically and trying to and and you keep talking about context, right? And then trying to keep on point with context and for the purse you know the first part of the story really sex and texting are a lot of what's telling the story. Right. And I don't know this is just a big ask of intimacy, you know, in a way to me you know to tell the story only with this and I don't know how you kept track of everything.
SPEAKER_01I mean somebody said did she have a spreadsheet yes I had a massive spreadsheet massive massive spreadsheet broken down by episode broken down by scene broken down by actor extremely detailed that I had with me on set certainly along with my sides and everything but I also read the scripts like seven times you know like maybe more like I just I read them until I knew them inside out so that I almost it got to the point where I felt like I had an internal tracking system you know but if I was ever uncertain I just referred to the spreadsheet yeah it was essential.
SPEAKER_00That must be an extensive spreadsheet for this show. Very very extensive yes maybe like that for every show but the timelines and jumping alone I thought oh boy that's a lot. Yeah yeah and I was thinking of you we talked about their chemistry and just how that affected the work and your approach and I'm curious how much is improvised? I mean or is it or is do things happen and then you decide if it's they decide if it's going to be edited or kept or is m mostly this kind of work not there's no improvising.
SPEAKER_01Jacob and I early on were like I s I think I said this like wanted to treat this like a dance. So it was like choreography. It's also like heavily maybe I know I didn't say this it's heavily scripted so in his scripts Jacob laid out the action for the intimacy with immense detail. And that meant that I really saw in great detail in my imagination, you know, what he was I guess offering or picturing with the scripts we really talked about yeah treating it like a dance treating it like choreography and being super technical and really exacting which then hopefully and I think in this case this did occur enabled the actors to have enough specificity like a dancer you know to then imbue it with emotion with you know certainly some imagination and their own character interpretation and their own artistry you know I'm not saying they didn't affect the choreography but it really was the way like a dancer would learn choreography but no dancer is going to dance the same choreography the same way you know and so then these actors imbued that choreography with their talent and artistry and imagination and their spirits. Yeah. So there is some I wouldn't call it improvisation you know because I actually try to avoid that personally from my perspective as an intimacy coordinator. Like certainly it's a fine balance to strike between like depending on the content of the scripted action, you know, setting choreography but not being in an actor's way, not trying to do the actor's job for them and not trying to do the director's job for them, but being there to support the whole process and ensure that everyone is consenting to everything that is occurring and that everyone feels confident and yeah that their boundaries are being respected in whatever is going on. But I guess I would just say that that's the best example I can give is that like when you're dancing you're still gonna imbue those movements with your own interpretation. Let's say the actors are interpreting it I wouldn't say they're improvising because I feel like improvising kind of alludes to this idea that like nobody knows what's going to happen or what's happening. That's not the case. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Yeah that makes sense okay so then at the cottage if you haven't seen the show this is probably like you're gonna go what is wrong with her but at the cottage when the lamp fell over in the first scenes when they're headed to the couch I remember looking over to my daughter going do you think that was scripted or did the lamp just they just crashed into the lamp.
SPEAKER_01Yeah gosh I actually can't remember I genuinely can't remember.
SPEAKER_00Yeah but they sort of giggle and it's cute it's a really cute you know cute to me I say cute. You know I just I thought it was super fun and kind of like you know you could see the it was physical so I you know I liked that but then you wonder in your head since I'm not super knowledgeable about movies and film. And do they mean to do that or was that just you know happen?
SPEAKER_01I can't remember genuinely if the lamp if the lamp knock was scripted but if not a real a real gift from the universe that one.
SPEAKER_00So there you go. We talked a little bit about how well consent was used in this show in particular and the other and and just safety, you know, safe sex practices with the condoms being shown and a lot of the back and forth with consent. I guess the other thing I really and and the joyful in the play but also the aftercare. So you know I'm in the space and I just feel like there was some sweet modeling of aftercare meaning what happens after sexual encounters. It was tender it was funny it was sweet it was you know stay it was there was just a a lot of that I mean I maybe I'm paying attention more than more than most to these kinds of things right but I really appreciated that model.
SPEAKER_01It's so nice to hear it's nice to flag that yeah it's nice to hear you flag that in that way that's certainly true. I mean I think that that's also like maybe an example of how those characters relationship evolves you know that the dynamic for them afterwards does really evolve and really change throughout the series which I think is yeah nice to see for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah so tell me what's next for you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah right now I am working on a show called The Body for Netflix that's super exciting. That's all I can say about it. And it's it's Quinn Shepherd show along with in collaboration of course with with a bunch of different partners and people production companies and such but yeah that's super exciting and then you know we have season two of Heated Rivalry that we'll start up at some point. I also can't say much more about that. Congratulations but super exciting to know that that gets to continue and have more life and then you know we'll see I'm in conversation with a lot of different people at the moment and I'm just trying to stay really present and do a good job on the show that I'm on right now and you know celebrate heated rivalry with everyone and yeah be a good member of my community.
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm. And do you get to celebrate all together the heated rivalry team? How does that work?
SPEAKER_01I'm curious we haven't yet no I think everyone's genuinely too busy but I feel like I certainly I'll just speak for myself I'm in touch with a good handful of people and yeah it's really nice to like check in here and there to like see an article about something for someone not even just the actors I mean for sure it's the actors I'm in touch with them congratulating them here and there and stuff like that. But yeah different people on the show too I feel like we're all happy for each other and happy for the show and yeah staying in touch to a degree. But yeah no we're not doing giant hangs and watching shows a marathon and like popping champagne or every anything like that to know everyone's too busy.
SPEAKER_00Too busy but it does sound like I can't remember your exact words but this was this somewhat of a dream team all the way around to work with and uh work alongside I'm so honestly sorry to cut you off that's one thing I want to say is like I certainly you know I feel grateful for and proud of my contribution to the show in terms of like the intimacy element of it but I want to also just say that that is a total team effort that it of course has to do with Jacob but it's also how the show is being produced it's all the producers it's also everyone on the camera team it's everyone on the wardrobe team it's it's everyone you know there are like tiny contributions or large contributions both that every single person on that set is making to allow every moment but certainly those moments to happen you know I I feel like it's such a collaboration as well and I really want to yeah just name that like our DOP Jackson Perel and like his whole team it's just like they're so unbelievably talented you know and it matters the way that like the camera frames of course like how the camera is framing that in the able to collaborate as two different people on that production team makes a massive difference. So yeah I just feel that's important to say hmm well you're cheering on the the whole yeah exactly yeah I'm delighted to hear that that's that's great. Tell people how they can find you and your work in the world. Yeah I mean I'm a pretty low profile internet person at the moment.
SPEAKER_01Maybe that'll change I don't know right now I am on Instagram just uh at Chayla underscore hunter and then I have a website that will probably be in transition soon honestly but right now it's just chalahunter.com. And then that's it for the moment but we'll see you know there's there's lots of stuff happening so TBD.
SPEAKER_00Well I'm cheering you on thank you so much for coming on the show sharing about the role of an intimacy coordinator. I'm curious what people knew or didn't know and not just related to hated rivalry but I think I loved you saying yes to this to just really help people understand the behind the scenes and the role you played in this huge, huge you know successful show. And I you know sometimes um I think it's really helpful for people to understand what's happening behind the camera in order to for what's happening on camera to come through. And that is a big big role that you played in this show. Mm-hmm well I was I was glad to contribute.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for being with us thank you for having me so lovely to meet you.
SPEAKER_00Maybe after season two you can come back.
SPEAKER_01Okay sounds good.
SPEAKER_00Well listeners we are leaning into curiosity on this season of the podcast and I do hope all your great questions you sent in about intimacy coordination were answered and a few about heated rivalry too. Perhaps this show is a way to open conversations in your life with yourself or with someone else it most certainly has been in mine. Stay curious and keep giving yourself permission permission for pleasure
